This article is part of our Beyond the Family Business series.
Hosted by Luke Hansen-MacDonald, a second-generation family business leader, Beyond the Family Business is one of the most thoughtful and engaging podcasts about family enterprise in Canada. In every episode, Luke goes beyond the headlines with other leaders in family businesses and family offices to explore lessons they have learned, their successes and their challenges.
In this episode, Luke sits down with Danielle Saputo, a third-generation member of the Saputo family enterprise. Her last name is ubiquitous in Canada, found in the dairy section of grocery stores across the country. Saputo is one of the Top 10 dairy processors in the world, with a foothold not only here at home but also in Europe, Australia and South America.
Today, Danielle is a family advisor, author and mother of three children. Her professional work focuses on helping families work through the challenges of preserving and passing along their wealth and their family legacy through the generations.
In her conversation with Luke, Danielle shares:
- The origins of the Saputo family business.
- How to avoid shirtsleeves-to-shirtsleeves in three generations.
- Her thoughts on the Family Enterprise Advisor (FEA) program and how it helped her to get where she is today.
- The art of breaking down generational barriers through conversation.
Previous episodes of “Beyond the Family Business” on Canadian Family Offices feature K.C. Daya, Jeffrey McCain, Ian Wilson, Derrick Hunter, Pierre Somers, Ben Hertzman and Lee Bragg.
Disclaimer: This podcast is sponsored by BMO Private Wealth. The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute financial, investment, or professional advice. The views expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of any organization or company. Always consult with a qualified financial advisor or professional before making any investment decisions.
*This transcript is provided for convenience and is based on the audio recording of the video. While efforts have been made to ensure accuracy, minor errors are possible.
Danielle: Growing up it’s almost like—how can I ever measure up to the grandeur of Saputo the company? Who am I in comparison?
Luke: Hi, I’m Luke Hansen-MacDonald and this is Beyond the Family Business, a podcast made in collaboration with Canadian Family Offices, where we dive into the unique challenges of operating a family enterprise. Today’s sponsor is BMO Private Wealth. As a client myself, I’ve seen firsthand how they can benefit families like mine.
Today’s guest is Danielle Saputo. She’s third generation of the legendary Saputo business family. She is an author. She’s a family business advisor, and a mother of three.
Today we discuss the origin story of the Saputo family. We discuss her journey, her book, some of the lessons she thinks are most valuable to family business owners. And lastly, we discuss what she has found most valuable to her as a mother and an owner of a family business herself.
All right; this is Beyond the Family Business podcast. Let’s jump into it.
Luke: Who are you? Where are you from? And what do you do?
Danielle: Fantastic, Luke. Thank you so much for having me here today. So, who am I? I’m Danielle Saputo. I’m third generation of a family enterprise. I live in Ontario, north of Toronto in the great town of Peterborough.
And what do I do? That’s a loaded question. I say I do a number of things, from being a parent to three lovely university students to being an author of a book titled I Am Enough: Emerging from the Shadows in the Sunlight of My True Self. I am a facilitator and family advisor helping families transition wealth and being intentional in their conversations as they’re passing wealth from one generation to the next. I’m a daughter. I’m a sister. And the list goes on. But we’ll leave it at that.
Luke: Awesome. Amazing. I’m very excited to get into a bunch of those topics. This will be a very interesting conversation.
To start off, I think most of my listeners will know about your family business, but maybe they wouldn’t know the founding story. So, could you maybe give sort of Coles notes of the founding story of your family business?
Danielle: Perfect. I say when I start that story, I tend to go back to the 1950s. My father and his family lived in Italy, Sicily at the time, and let’s say after the war, whatever efforts they put in just weren’t turning out. My grandfather had a brother in the States, and at that time the border crossing for Italians into the United States had changed. So, they thought, well, the next best thing, come to Canada. So, they were sponsored by a family in Canada, came to Canada, and the stories my Dad tells at that time were not very welcoming stories. Unfortunately, taken advantage of, worked hard, while the uncle was sending over supplies and money to support the nephew and the brother who had come to Canada.
My father had never seen one thing sent over. He arrived in November, on a cold November day in Ontario, and we know what the winters are like here, and he was still in his Italian leather shoes. And while the uncle was supplying all kinds of things, he had never received any of it. So, in February he’s taped up his shoes because they haveholes now, working on this farm. Anyways, rather than going into that story, it took them two years to raise enough money to get a ticket for the rest of the family to get on the boat and make it to Canada.
Although there was the brother in the States, I think just when opportunity knocks at the door and the family comes together and go through the hardships [that they went through], they stuck together and stuck it out here in Canada.
And one of the expertise that they had was cheesemaking. And let’s just say all the pieces aligned together with pizzerias opening up, with lots of Italians immigrating to Canada and wanting a little bit of taste of the old country. When they started in a little garage to sort of make this cheese from home, it hit it off right there. There was great demand, not only the mozzarella for pizzerias that were opening up, but for all the Italians who sort of reminisced to the taste of the cheese made like in Palermo.
So, that was the start. It was really my father’s one of eight siblings, four brothers and four sisters. Each pretty much had their role, from the sisters who were packaging the cheese to the brothers and brother-in-laws, who was in the sales, who was in the manufacturing, who was in the business itself. So, everyone sort of had their go at what they were doing.
And fast forward, the company’s gone through an IPO. It is one of the largest dairy producing businesses, I guess, in the world. And yeah, so that sort of shows you the beginnings of the 1950s to where we are in 2025.
Luke: That’s incredible in such a short period of time too, to go through that. From such a challenging immigrant story coming into Canada to building such an incredible business. You must be very proud. That’s very cool.
Did they come in through, I always got to ask this question about immigrant stories, did they come through Halifax in Pier 21?
Danielle: I don’t remember my father’s journey because I just know that he arrived in Ontario on a train. So, was he on the boat too through Halifax? But yes, when the rest of the family came, the rest of the family did arrive through the pier in Halifax.
Luke: Oh, very cool. And how did they end up in Montreal? Did they go Halifax to Ontario first and then back to Montreal, or through Quebec?
Danielle: With the story that I won’t share on the side, with my father being at the farm in Ontario, my grandfather had found work in the Montreal area and, you know, was at that time there was lots of infrastructure being built, with the bridges, roads and all that. My grandfather sort of set himself up in the Montreal area, and when my father was taken from the farm, that’s sort of where they set their roots and had their first start. So yes, it was the grandfather.
Luke: Oh, very interesting. What is your earliest memory of the family business?
Danielle: Oh my. It’s funny because when I think of that, I remember when my Dad was president. I would spend many days, especially on the weekend if, you know, the days I wasn’t in school or wasn’t in a sport, I’d hop in the car with my Dad as he would go in, because there were no hours in the day when it’s your own business, right?
So, I’m sure it would be a weekend or a day I was home from school. I would go to the factory with my Dad. And he’d had his office, and the hallway just outside his office had this window, which was ground-level. Anyways, it looked into the manufacturing.
I remember as a little girl just putting myself on the floor because the window was not at eye level standing, but it was on the ground. I just remember it was like a little window that I had to crouch down. I just lay there and I remember watching the big arms on these great big stainless steel vats filled with the milk as the cheese was being formed, and these arms just doing that creation, the waves on the white milky surface, and the smell that just … Yeah, I think anytime I come across that smell, it’ll bring me back to that memory as a child looking over and watching this great big, well, it felt like a great big room of where the cheese was being made.
Luke: Oh, very cool. It’s funny how it is with smells when you’re young. I grew up around our seafood business, and for most people, the smell of a seafood business is not incredible. But if I walk into any seafood retail store or anything like that, it transports me back to my childhood. And it’s a very positive memory for me. Even if my wife is sort of like, oh, it stinks in here. It’s strange how that happens.
Danielle: Exactly.
Luke: And are you involved in that family business anymore today?
Danielle: No. So, no. I would say, as a child, I think I was 12 when I would go in and do some filing. I think at 15 I probably received my first paycheque from the business for going in, working the summers, right till I guess the years just before I got married where I was working for the family business.
When I left, when I got married, I did leave Quebec. So that was my sort of separation and not into the day-to-day.
And really there was a big change that happened when the company did go through its IPO. So less and less family members were working in the business. And I’d say today, for today, I feel a level of separation to the daily things that go on with the business that carries my name.
Luke: Fair enough. And so, I guess then the next thing is what do you do today? I mean, you talked about it briefly in the intro, but obviously I know quite a bit about what you’re up to on the family business advisory, but I’d love to hear your explanation of what that looks like today and how you got into it.
Danielle: Wonderful. And I’d say the serendipity of how I got into it, is quite something. And I would say that part of that is because of the courage I had stepping through doors and opportunities that presented themselves.
And I probably would go back to, I’m trying to think, 2013, 2016, you know, somewhere around within that frame. My mind frame was, okay, I’ve come across this shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations. And I’m thinking, oh my, my kids will be that wealth transfer third generation. What tools do I need to help prep them?
And so, with that question in mind, there were many things that sort of came at my doorstep and I had the courage to say, okay, let me learn more about that.
And from being part of various high net worth groups that were talking about how to manage wealth, to being part of a next generation leadership event that took place in Scone Palace in Scotland, to a variety of others that just exposed me to this: Okay, what is this proverbial saying of shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations?
And it was my experience at the Scone project that made me observe a couple facilitators. And when I saw what they were able to do and open the door to finding power and vulnerability, that’s what led me to say, oh my, I want to learn more about that.
Because when we do come in contact with what we think we’re most vulnerable with and we turn it around and reframe it to be a strength, it’s incredible how we then can stand truly strong in our own two feet to really become a true individual, to bring forth what it is that we innately have within us. And it was that process that sort of then led me down to having a coaching designation, having the family enterprise advisory designation, and the education continues there with positive psychology and everything else.
And with my background of living within a family business that didn’t have boundaries (between what was family and what was business) because there really weren’t any boundaries there, with working in the family business, with studying business, with having a little bit of entrepreneurial background myself, all these pieces came together with my coaching, with the family advisory designation, that it led me to do the work that I do today. And if I were to give a catchphrase, I sort of say I’m that accountability partner for families to have the intentional conversations that are often not had.
And I believe that it’s the ability to create this continuity planning to bring forward conversations that are intentional about the family wealth, about what it means, what it’s there for, what it’s meant to do, to understand the values and the culture of the family. And all these pieces come together in a continuity plan for a family to be intentional in these conversations.
Luke: Wow. Yeah, it’s quite a voyage. And, I mean, I’m going down not exactly the same road, as I’m not an adviser, but going down the same self-education road of trying to figure out from other people like yourself what are those best practices, etc.
Maybe I could ask, you’ve done a number of trainings and certifications over time. Is there one that stands out, like the FEA one, or something that you think is particularly valuable for somebody in your line of work?
Danielle: So, the FEA program, definitely. What I loved about the FEA program were the tools that it provided, or the framework, to really understand process versus content. And we tend to be in a world, especially when we’re dealing with financial wealth, is we’re always looking to measure it, right? What are the gains? What was the performance from this year to last year? Everything is almost very measurable if something’s gone well versus something’s not gone well.
Coming out of the Family Enterprise Advisory program, we look at wealth much more than just the finances. And I use the FISH acronym, right? You have your financial assets, but also in that is your intellectual assets, your social assets, and your human assets.
And if you don’t widen that perspective on wealth, you tend to lose. And hence that proverbial saying of shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves when we don’t look at the human capital, when we don’t look at our social network and all that comes that way, and we don’t really focus in on each individual’s intellectual capital, we miss a big part of the equation to say are we successful or are we not successful.
So, the framework that the family enterprise advisory brought forward with a whole bunch of tools to reframe lots of this stuff has really been a great piece to put on my tool belt to the work that I bring to other families and even my own.
Luke: Yeah, for sure. I’ve actually looked at that program for my own selfish purposes to use within my own family office. So, I may pick your brain on that later.
Danielle: Absolutely.
Luke: So, could you speak about what are some of the common challenges that you are working, I’m not asking for obviously anything confidential, but what are those most common challenges you would be working with a client on trying to solve?
Danielle: So, there’s a number there. Very often I would start off with someone who approaches me saying, hey, what is it that keeps you up at night? If I had to generalize, very often it’s how do I involve the next generation.
You know, an entrepreneur, it becomes very difficult to let go of a baby that you’ve created. And with any succession plan or anything like that, there’s, you know, I’ll bring forward a tool that we learned in the Family Enterprise Advisory program, but it’s understanding how to bring family members to speak as adult to adult, right?
Because we are a child, we go through adulthood, we become a parent and we have a child. And very often the way we converse between being a parent and a child has particular dynamics. And very often it’s how do we bring the line more equal where a parent and a child can truly speak to each other adult to adult, taken away. And the nuances come from both sides. A child is always looking for a parent’s approval. So sometimes the way they approach a conversation keeps them like a child and doesn’tallow them to step up to be that adult. And a parent tends to, I mean all their life, have always tried to teach and pass on certain things to a child. So being a parent, it’s hard to get out of that position when your child becomes that adult, to say I got to step and say, hey, how can I really have conversations that allow us to look at things eye to eye to bring this forward.
So very often lots of the conversations just revolve of that communication amongst the different generations of the family.
Another piece that often comes up is for those wealth makers, is they don’t know to what extent they should be lending, passing over the lending hand to the next generation.
You know, lots of these entrepreneurs have started from nothing and have gone through lots of hardship and they believe that that is their drive going forward. So, there’sthe big question of do we entitle our children and give them everything they ask for, or do we hold back, let them struggle so that they find themselves, is another big question that is often …
Luke: Sorry, sorry to butt in there, that one is something that I think is the most universal topic when I’m in these interviews or just talking to people offline, you know, one-on-one. Everybody struggles with that balance and it’s exactly as you said it. It’s like, you know, the people earned their own through a meritocracy. They’ve earned their own entrepreneurial value, but then they at the same time were motivated by the desire to give their children a better life than they had.
And so, they want to, you know, as part of their own love, share some of that wealth with their kids and make sure that they can go to a good school or that they have a childhood they maybe didn’t have themselves.
My Dad absolutely had that experience. He was a plumber when he was 11, you know, a plumber’s apprentice, and he loves spoiling kids, us or other people’s kids.
And it’s like that’s all part of it. But at the same time, you take that to an extreme and of course you get the silver spoon problem of spoiling kids, and they never learn the value of money or even the value of hard work.
Not to put you on the spot, but have you come up with what is the right balance, or is it different for everybody?
Danielle: No. And I would say yes. Every individual, every family, it depends, right? Some relationships or some children are more apt to understanding certain things, where others, you know, it’s like give, give, or take, take, take, and there is no boundary.
From what I’ve seen through what I’ve been doing and all the reading and all that I’ve been exposed to, I really believe that there is a, although there’s no one formula, there is a process one can go through.
And when we are in a situation where we’re able to give, we should give with intention. We should give with communication. We should give with storytelling, that we’re not just, you know, and I’m thinking of, you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen, but you go to the grocery store, you got a young child who sits in the front of the grocery cart and you’re going down a particular aisle full of this all colored candy or chips or, you know, all the good stuff that the kids want and they point and say, “I want,” you know, and it’s that mine, mine, mine mentality. And I say those are doors that open for opportunity. You can be a parent who says, “Okay, you know, just to get my child to be quiet, let me grab a couple of those bags and I’ll put them in the cart or give it to let them hold it in their hand and then the child’s happy, quiet.”
But I find that’s a lost opportunity. For me, those moments of a child pointing, saying “I want,” is an opportunity to bring forward value, to bring forward what is the culture of the family you want to bring forward in the whole wealth realm.
Is it something that they just ask and receive, or is there, they ask, there’s now an opportunity for story, for a lesson, for value to come through, to then decide if they receive or don’t receive.
And for me, it’s being able to have families do more of that communication before giving that can lead to better outcomes in the long run to know, okay, my child understands what our family culture is, the child understands what the values we live by are.
So, giving becomes more of a gift of giving rather than giving with a burden, not knowing where it’s going to land.
Luke: Oh yeah. No, that’s a great way to explain it and a great philosophy. I definitely agree with that. Even just on a parenting level, not even thinking about in the context of our family business, I wholeheartedly agree with that mentality. So that makes a lot of sense.
I’d love to, I’m watching our time, and I’d love to get to talk about your book as well. This is a topic again that resonates a lot with me. Could you speak a little bit, what is your book focused on?
Danielle: So, the book focuses on my story finding my light within the shadow of being, you know, growing up it’s almost like how can I ever measure up to the grandeur of Saputo the company? Who am I in comparison?
And so, my book was sort of written with that, find your own feet, find your own value, that even if you come from that family of grandeur, you are grand yourself. You don’tneed to measure up, and you don’t need to.
So, my book sort of goes through some stories of defining moments and how I thought I was defined because of these defining moments, only to realize those are potential false stories. They were false stories I was telling myself.
And that thinking and reframing and going through the process I went through, it allowed me to say, “Oh my gosh, I do have a voice that’s worth sharing. Oh my gosh, I am more valued than I ever gave myself credit for.”
And so, my story was put out to help any other individual who felt they’re caught in the shadows to really find their true self so that they can stand strong in the sunlight of what they carry within themselves.
I mean, I’m a believer. I use that philosophy of we all have an inner light. How much that light shines is really up to us. No one else can define how much that shines. And if we can find the value within ourselves and have that ability to step forward, and take the eyes, if we like, from around us, and we can step forward into that, we can really make our own light shine bright. And that’s what my intention of my story, sharing my story with others, was, with the hope that it would help another individual find their inner light to really step into that sunlight.
Luke: No, that’s really beautiful and absolutely something I’ve gone through personally. Could I ask what are some examples of some of those false stories you were telling yourself? I think people would love to hear it.
Danielle: If I had to think of one off the top of my mind, you know, I can use the example as a child, I was one of five siblings. I’m fourth in line, so one of the younger ones. I felt I was one of the most petite ones, so I always felt it was easiest for me to always be put in the back seat, right? Because I was smaller, I was younger. So, I’m thinking of one travel [trip] we did where we rented a car and we were seven in the car and there were only six seats. So, I was put in the back with the suitcases.
Or at the dinner table. I tended to be the quieter one.
So, all this experience growing up, being put in the back, being the quiet one at the table, not having anyone really ask me for me to speak up, made me believe that I didn’t have value in anything I had to say.
So, that was a false image I gave myself because I just connected dots to perceive that that’s the way it was. But that was falsely perceived on my side.
When I did speak up, people did turn and listen. I thought I needed permission or needed to be asked to speak, and hence why I never spoke, and hence why I always told myself my voice is of no value. So, that would be an example.
Luke: Yeah. That’s an excellent example. Is it fair to say that you going through this process of becoming an adviser to other families has been part of that self-discovery and finding your true self? I mean it’s got to be incredible; I can hear the passion. I could tell you could talk about this for hours. It must be very rewarding on a personal level when you see that you’ve helped some other family battle through something.
Danielle: Oh, and I tell you, talking about that we, you know, part of my book also talks about the way we have saboteur. And the saboteur is that inner voice that often pulls us back from when we’re trying to go forward.
And I tell you, I very often had my saboteur sort of play in my head saying, “Oh my gosh, I’m really being selfish here.” Like I felt I was gaining more than I was giving because exactly that, I was gaining my voice. Part of my journey of strengthening my stance and being able to be with the family or with the clients, or the coachings I’vedone, there were certain times my own voice was telling me I’m being very selfish here because this is so self-rewarding for myself.
And, you know, there was always that other side saying, well hopefully the clients are getting just as much as I am because I am feeling enriched by finding myself in that position.
Luke: I think that’s a great sign because it means you’re going to keep challenging yourself to give more and create more value with your clients. So that’s wonderful and that hits the nail on the head of my own struggle with this same topic of finding one’s true self, which I am midway through that journey. I certainly have not arrived somewhere yet. I would say, you know, throughout my journey, I’ve gone through the classic stereotypes of trying to emulate my dad, like basically just whatever he had done and I knew from stories from when he was younger, which of course were romanticized looking backwards. But, you know, I tried to do that. I tried to emulate other mentors I had. I also allowed the pressures of others really get to me. Other people would say, “Oh, you’re part of this family, therefore you must want to be this or do this thing or whatever else.”
And so, people would serve you up expectations. And initially, I felt flattered by it, but soon realized it was actually the cause of a lot of my own self-negative talk and whatnot. “Oh, you’re not living up to what you should be because this person thinks you are going to do this and you didn’t do it as quickly as you should or whatever.”
The self-sabotage thing probably is the biggest one that I struggle with, is just, you know, that impostor syndrome mixed with just comparing myself to other people and thinking I’m not achieving enough versus standing back and being happy with who I am and have I progressed compared to myself. Again, this is an expansive topic, but could you speak a little bit of how you solved that self-sabotage part because I think that’s really important.
Danielle: Yeah. No. And it starts with going through and finding what tools work best for you. For me, it was finding those mantras and repeating them to myself, or the moment that that saboteur would speak, reframing it. Saying “Okay, wait a second” Being a parent and going through all this as well, there were lots of times it’s like, oh shucks, am I the best parent I can be? It’s like, no you’re not. And then it’s like, no, I am the best parent I can be. And then I turn to my girls and say, I’m the only mom they’llever have, so I am good at what I do, because look at …
And I would also add, not only the self-mantras that we are able to hopefully repeat in our own head to sort of quiet down a little bit of the saboteur, but there is also all kinds of work. And if you look up or even Google, you know, how to conquer my saboteur, you’ll have a bombardment of different tools and different things one can do.
So, taking a process just to be able to, one, recognize when it is, you know, naming that voice that speaks in your head. If you’re able to give it a name, and therefore every time it comes up, quiet it down because you’re able to name it and then reframe it.
Another thing I find we often don’t do enough of, and I’m guilty of it frequently because we’re always moving on, when we have accomplished one thing, we’re quickly moving on to the next. We don’t give ourselves the time to celebrate. And I find when we’re able to just take a breath, give ourselves the opportunity to celebrate, and celebration doesn’t have to be a big hoopla, that you’re putting up a party and invitations.
Sometimes a celebration is just a high five to yourself or give yourself a happy dance. Or some people love to say, “Hey, because of that, I’m going to treat myself to a haircut or a spa day or whatever.” But find a thing that works for you to really be able to take a moment to breathe and say, “I accomplished something great.”
And the greatness doesn’t have to be big things. I sometimes often refer to the example of I know I need more water in my day. And when I’m able to put my three-liter bottle of water out and come to empty at the end of the day, that’s something to be celebrated because it’s an achievement.
Luke: Absolutely.
Danielle: Sometimes even something as small as drinking your intake of water that you set out for yourself is something that we should take the opportunity to celebrate.
And I find we think celebrations are graduating from a university degree, or getting that promotion at work, or it’s the big things.
I would love to reframe and say it’s the little things too. If we’re able to daily celebrate the smallest of achievements, that helps us sort of see ourselves in that different light, to stand better in our own feet, to really take control, to say I have it. I do have a light that is worth shining and I will shine it bright today.
Luke: No, that’s great advice. I love lists for that exact reason, if you get to the end of a week, and you can check off your list, even if it’s small things. It makes me go into the weekend feeling so much better about myself and less anxious and whatever else. So, I completely hear you.
All right; we only have time for a couple more questions. I guess one of the questions I would ask, I have a five-year-old, excuse me, I have a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old.
And you and I were on a panel recently, and the topic came up of when should you introduce your kids to the family business? And I had said, well, they’re kind of young, like it’s probably not yet. And you challenged me a little bit on that panel, which I think was a good point, is you can look at doing it at a very young age in different ways.
I was hoping maybe you could give me some advice. You know, when should I try to introduce my kids to the family business and what are some ways to do that? How do I do it?
Danielle: Yeah. So, a number of things are crossing my mind. Sometimes even just depending what the family business is, right? Sometimes if there’s an office or a manufacturing or something related to the family business, it’s even just saying, “Hey, let’s have a field trip day.”
Where you take them through, and you’re able to start storytelling with some of those things, you are exposing them to [the business]. If there’s anything around that is related to the family business—you’re never short of stories you can share and tell. And I find a story that attaches to a value of what you really feel [is important] to the family, and the values you want to pass on, that might have come from the previous generation and you’d like to continue to the next generation. When stories are embraced with a value [attached], they are the stories that stick. So, [you can] sort of have that value system come through at a young age.
I also sort of guide many of my clients to say, you know, when they think their children are too young, I say children show curiosity at multiple times in their stages of life.Meet them at those stages. When a question comes up, some questions are very difficult and it’s like, “Oh my gosh, I don’t quite have an answer for that.” But take that moment, even if you have to tell your child, “Hold on, ask me that. Count to 10 and ask me that again.”
Don’t let too much time pass, but if you need a moment to sort of recollect and say, “Okay, how do I want to answer this?” Children will let you know.
We as parents often don’t give our children enough credit, but when they show curiosity, that is when they are ready. We might not be the ones that are ready, but when they show some readiness through their questioning, that’s when I’d say it’s up to the parent to take that opportunity. I call these ‘doors that open’—that you can step in and bring forward a lesson, bring forward knowledge, bring forward a story, bring forward something that’s related to your business or the family wealth or the family finances. And these are opportunities that you can enrich your relationship by having those opportunities to speak or to converse or to share those things.
I’m trying to remember, I think one of the other things I had mentioned with you was, you know, when the kids are young and if you ever start them on a weekly or a monthly, what’s the word I’m looking for…
Luke: Allowance.
Danielle: Thank you. You’re going to have to redo that one.
Luke: No, it’s okay.
Danielle: Yeah. So, when you start, you know, there are lots of families who do give their children an allowance, right? But an allowance shouldn’t just be here it is and no conversation with that.
If you are a family who does believe in giving, or you do start by introducing an allowance to your children, again, this to me is a wealth of knowledge you can pass on to them that is related or not related to the family business itself. But, you know, family business at the end of the day is the wealth that the family carries. So how can you really bring forward some valuable conversation around the wealth of the family?
And when an allowance is introduced, to me, that’s a perfect time to sort of introduce something.
I’ve come across this great five wallet system, that if you give an allowance to your child, it’s put into five wallets.
For example, there was a time when my girls started elementary school. They were given $20 and the $20 was split into five wallets.
The five wallets consisted of:
Wealth, which was long-term. So, they would take a portion of what they received and put aside. Usually, you know, I sort of say, hey, you want that to be the biggest of the wallets because it was long-term growth. Then you got into conversation about compounding and understanding that money that’s left and compounded grows exponentially versus money that you put in and out every once in a while, and play with, it doesn’t quite grow the same. So, the wealth wallet brought forward long-term savings and compounding lessons.
There was the plan wallet. So if they, while they were in elementary school, if they wanted, for example, a skateboard or whatever it was that they wanted to have, and that pointing, “I want,” it was like, okay, you’re getting so much allowance, what do you need to put aside that every month you accumulate enough to pay for that? So, it also allowed for longer-term building. We live in a world these days where lots of children, it’s instantaneous, instant gratification. And this plan wallet allowed the door to open for no; things don’t always happen the moment you ask for it. You have to plan for it. And it does take time. How much time needs to pass for you to have enough in there to purchase what you’re aiming for? So, that was the plan wallet.
Then there was the education. My girls had Scholastics that they would get every month. So, if there was a book in there or some typing program that they wanted, or anything that was related to their education, that wallet would have some money put aside. So, at the end of the month, they were able to buy that book that they wanted because they had that money in the education wallet.
Then there was the angel wallet. For us, the value of giving back was a big thing. The school often would have that if you would donate, you can be principal for the dayand you would bring in your donation. So, their angel wallet allowed them to accumulate those few toonies, whatever, to go in and give back to the school for that.
And one that’s very often overlooked is the fun wallet. We have different relationships; different people have different relationships with money. And this is a great time to realize what is the child’s relationship, or you can even reflect on what is your own relationship with money.
Are you a hoarder? Are you a spender? Are you, I’ll use somebody else’s money, but I won’t use my own? It’s sort of, you evaluate where do you stand in that realm of using and working with your money.
And the fun wallet was great for those individuals who were hoarders. And I can speak of my children; they didn’t want to spend their money once they knew that they had that and they wanted to see it grow.
The fun wallet was that wallet that we said at the end of the month, that wallet needs to be empty. You find something that you want to spend this money on. So, be it candy at the grocery store, or be it a day out where they can get something, it was meant to be spent for something fun and that put that smile on the face.
So, that was a system that I used.
Luke: That is awesome. Sorry, no, keep going.
Danielle: No, I was just going to conclude. Although it’s not necessarily truly related to the business itself, it’s the business of money, right? And at the end of the day, we want our children to be savvy with the financial side of things. And I found this five wallet system really allowed that to open up.
Luke: Yeah. No, that’s a really, really great idea. I love the distinguishing between the long-term compounding and the long-term planning because I do think those are two distinct ideas. It’s a great way to illustrate all five of them. They’re all different ways you use your money as you get older and it’s a great way to illustrate that to them.
The fun one, I love the fact that it’s spent every month as well. So it sort of allows them to reward themselves a little bit as well. This is definitely a topic we haven’t got to allowances yet with my 5-year-old and certainly not the 2-year-old, but I will keep this in mind when we get there. That’s great advice.
Last question for you. What has been the biggest impact on your own family as you’ve gone through this journey? You’ve got to work with other families, you’ve seen probably many, many different versions of similar challenges as well as challenges maybe you’ve never faced personally.
You’ve got all this great education from like the FEA, etc., plus just tons of self-reflection. You can hear it as you speak about finding your true self and whatnot. What do you think has been the biggest benefit to, I guess, your own family going through this journey?
Danielle: So, I would say two things.
One, it really has given me the strength that my voice can make a difference. When you say family, I see it in multiple levels. One, I see it like my relationship with my sisters and my parents, and it’s allowed me to be a voice at the table and really hold on to the value of that. That to me, before I went through any of my journey, I really remained the quiet one at the table and I was waiting for permission, and if I wasn’t asked, I never said a thing. Whereas this whole journey that I’ve taken has allowed me to be more of that voice at the table and to share some of that knowledge I have. So definitely at that level.
When I look at my immediate family, where I stand with my own girls, this whole journey I think has really allowed the educational journey I’ve been able to take my girls on to be very rewarding. Using the resources I have around me to then get my girls to be in topic and in conversation and let them stand strong as individuals. There’s no forced path for them to have to take. They need to find their own. Yet there’s the common ground of family wealth that’s meant to be stewarded. What does that mean to them? Where does it fit in the whole family realm? And what’s the process we can take forward to give them all the tools they need to be comfortable with that.
And to me, I think all that I’ve been learning, all that I’ve been exposed to, all that I’ve been able to bring to other families helps me feel more strengthened to be able to take the journey with my own kids, to put them at a level ground for being stewards of financial wealth.
Luke: Well said. I can certainly say you are an inspiration to me because I’m on the same journey and a big motivation for this podcast is to ultimately become stronger atcall it “the table” with my parents and my brother, but also to be able to be a better father and help with the stewardship as you said, etc.
Seeing you go through this and the fact that you’ve learned so much [truly] gives me a lot of hope and that’s where I hope to go in my journey as well. So, thank you so much for your time.
Danielle: And any way I can give you input, I’m always happy to share my knowledge. Thank you.
Luke: Absolutely. And thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.
All right. This is Beyond the Family Business Podcast. Thanks for watching. Please like and subscribe. Take care.